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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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hello and welcome to the skeptic zone

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episode number 396 for the 22nd of may

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2016 Richard Saunders here with you from

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Sydney Australia and what a bumper

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edition of the skeptic zone we have for

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you this week three really interesting

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reports I'm sure you'll agree we're

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going to kick off with an interview with

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the Australian sex party oh yes dr.

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Meredith Doig from the Australian sex

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party now normally the skeptic zone sort

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of steers clear of politics but in this

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case we're going to make a big exception

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because the Australian sex party put out

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a rather good well crafted and quite

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devastating media release a reply to

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merrill dory of the australian

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vaccinations skeptics network so we'll

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be chatting to Meredith doig dr.

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Meredith doig from the Estonian sex

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party all about that and their policies

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in general which appear to me to be

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rather based in science and evidence

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following that it's the return of dr.

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Richie dr. ray cheer apports who will be

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reporting on supplements now these are

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the sort of things you can buy in most

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pharmacies in Australia and other

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countries to fish oils and the vitamin

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supplements and all this sort of stuff

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and as you'll discover with dr. Reggie

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just because they're on the shelves of a

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pharmacy doesn't necessarily mean you

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can trust them then to round off the

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show it's the raw skeptic report Heidi

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Robertson with a very interesting and

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detailed report looking into the what

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shall we say the rash of chiropractors

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entering hospitals to manipulate the

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spines of newborn babies crazy but true

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so this is one of those episodes of the

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skeptic zone where I would like you to

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tell your friends relatives enemies

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anybody now in the past week I think I'm

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still sort of coming down from this I

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went to see I went to see our reporter

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Maynard and the mad club this is when

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may nod turns into a DJ and if you go to

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the skeptic zone facebook page or the

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notes for this week's episode you see a

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little video i made of DJ may not in

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action with the mad club goodness me if

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we could hook Maynard up to the national

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grid I don't think this country would

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have any energy problems what a

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performer what a performer Maynard calm

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today you to find out more but he was

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simply one of the best DJs I've seen

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live in action it's really the first

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time I've really seen may not do the DJ

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work for the big crowd at a nightclub it

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was fantastic and don't forget you can

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see me talk on saturday Saturday in the

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blue mountains at Paracon i'll be giving

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a talk about the million-dollar

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challenge in the $100,000 challenge here

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in this country for anybody who can

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prove any hara normal or supernatural

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ability I just check out the website on

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google perricone australia and also on

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the fourth of june the australian

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skeptics are having a dinner meeting

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here in sydney and you can find out more

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at skeptics Comte you we've have a

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somebody claiming to be psychic I think

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coming along and then i'll be talking

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about her the trick some of the psychic

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tricks of the trade should be a very

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interesting night but now it's time for

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me to run downstairs and make sure those

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two skeptics own cats Henrietta and

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would have their dinner what will it be

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tonight hmm tuna in gravy maybe or maybe

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some dry kibbles I don't know I'm going

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to run downstairs and make sure they're

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okay while I'm doing that I hope you

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and joining me now from Melbourne is the

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lead Senate candidate for Victoria for

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the Australian sex party dr. Meredith

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joy hello Meredith I Richard how are you

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I'm pretty well I'm doing really well

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I'm very pleased to talk with you we do

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know each other we have bumped into each

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other from time to time and various

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skeptical rational sort of events over

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the years that's right and the

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Australian sex party has been on the

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skeptic zone before it was my pleasure

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oh eight years ago to interview Fiona

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Patten when the the whole thing was was

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very new before we get into the reason

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we're chatting can you tell our

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listeners a little bit about the

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Australian sex party I mean what a title

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for a party huh well it's a bit of a

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two-edged sword actually a lot of people

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find it a bit confronting the name

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people I speak to sort of say I've got

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to change the name change name but then

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on the other hand it gets us noticed and

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the origin of the name was that Fiona

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and her partner Robbie who were the

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founders of the Australian sex party

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used to work with Don chip in Canberra

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Don chip the famous found a rebel from

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the Liberal Party and founder of the

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Australian Democrats right when Fiona

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and Robbie were thinking of setting up a

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political party his advice was well for

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heaven's sake call it something

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memorable and so they did so whether or

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not you know we might morph the name

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into something else in the future it's a

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bit of an open question but I encourage

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anybody who's listening to this to send

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us in ideas for a better name there you

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go there's a challenge there's a

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challenge it's hard to think of a better

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name actually come and join the sex

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party yes it just briefly the website

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dough and we'll refer to this soon is

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that sex party org dot a you

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but the reason it says what listeners

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might know i mean the skeptic sound

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really doesn't dabble too much into

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politics we'll leave that for other

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people to look at them who to vote for

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one way or the other but we're happy to

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give you a chance to have a chat with us

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because just recently we saw the sex

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party put up a reply to merrill dory of

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the australian vaccination skeptics

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network and for the benefit of our

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listeners will just play that or read

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that press release out now published at

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ww sex party orgy you ASX p australian

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sex party responds to vaccination

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skeptics the australian sex party was

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contacted by notorious anti-vaccination

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campaigner and science denier merrill

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dory asking for our position on quote

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both know jab no pay / no play

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legislation and the right of australian

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citizens to make free and informed

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health choices for their families

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without financial penalties or

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discrimination then quote here is our

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response DM is dori i am pleased to

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respond on behalf of the australian sex

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party to your request for information on

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our position on vaccination issues i'd

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like to request that my response be

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published in full and unedited on both

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your website and social media please do

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share it widely the australian sex party

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believes in individual liberty and the

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freedom to make choices regarding your

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own life with this freedom however comes

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responsibility as members of our

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community and beneficiaries of the

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privileges provided by the community we

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have an obligation to ensure that

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exercising our freedom does not put

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others at undue risk no jab no pay the

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federal government's no jab no pay

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measures aim to reduce the spread of

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preventable diseases knowingly and

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willingly putting one's child and others

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at risk of dangerous and preventable

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diseases is irresponsible reckless and

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anti-social the australian

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sex party does not believe that those

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who choose not to participate in our

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collective enterprise of disease

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prevention should be rewarded with tax

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benefits or rebates in Australia parents

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are not forced to vaccinate their

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children those who contribute to the

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broader communities health by

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vaccinating their children or have

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genuine medical exemptions receive a

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contribution from the community in the

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form of F T be a in the VA supplement

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childcare benefit and childcare rebate

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payments the Australian sex party

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supports this public health measure no

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jab no play victoria's no job no play

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laws were introduced to protect public

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health the australian sex party believes

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that if a parent wishes to use our

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community's early childhood education

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and care services they should be

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expected to play their part in

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protecting the community from

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preventable diseases those who choose to

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endanger the health of others by not

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vaccinating their children should not be

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welcome to do so in an early childhood

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care setting the right of Australian

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citizens to make free and informed

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health choices for their families

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without financial penalty or

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discrimination the Australian sex party

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supports the right of Australian

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citizens and others to make free and

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informed health choices for their

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families the party does not however

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believe that going against the best

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scientific information available

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represents an informed health choice the

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anti-vaccination movement encourages

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parents to quote do your own research

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end quote however doing quote research

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end quote by reading web pages is not

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comparable to actual research done by

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scientists who work hard to protect us

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all from dangerous and debilitating

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disease the australian sex party rejects

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the insinuation that expecting all

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parents to participate in preventing

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diseases is a form of discrimination the

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safety and efficacy of vaccination is

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not an area of scientific controversy

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the claim that governments and

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scientists

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all conspiring to mislead us for some

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nefarious purpose is absurd and

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irresponsible the dangers of

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complications from vaccines are much

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lower than the dangers posed by

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childhood diseases such as measles the

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claims of the anti-vaccination movement

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have been thoroughly debunked choosing

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not to vaccinate your children amounts

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to medical neglect this is a serious

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ethical issue whilst it can be tempting

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to imagine that we parents have access

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to some special kind of knowledge that

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somehow eludes the scientific community

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it's just not so we at the australian

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sex party would like to encourage

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parents who are questioning what's right

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for their children to follow the advice

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of the scientific and medical

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communities rather than charlatans and

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conspiracy theorists regards Darren

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Austin senior policy advisor Australian

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sex party well marreth that's um that's

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pretty powerful stuff are you must be

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very proud that that's come out of the

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Australian sex party well yes it is but

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it's a I have to say not the only good

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thing that's come out of Israel sex

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party I mean we were the first party for

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example that called for a Royal

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Commission into institutional child

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abuse were really child abuse by

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religious organizations and that has

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come to pass that's fantastic yeah and I

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notice that I mean there's a strong

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civil liberties theme but you're not

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just a one-trick pony this the sex party

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is it I mean you're into all sorts of

275
00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:41,850
things you have policies on tax and

276
00:12:47,450 --> 00:12:44,490
religion on sex education on the clergy

277
00:12:50,020 --> 00:12:47,460
going into schools on sniffer dogs clean

278
00:12:52,460 --> 00:12:50,030
energy a relatively succinct way of

279
00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:52,470
summarizing our the range of our

280
00:12:59,390 --> 00:12:55,010
policies is that we are unashamedly

281
00:13:01,220 --> 00:12:59,400
socially progressive hence we support

282
00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:01,230
marriage equality without a plebiscite

283
00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:04,410
let's just get it done legalizing

284
00:13:11,030 --> 00:13:07,290
voluntary assisted dying and protecting

285
00:13:13,329 --> 00:13:11,040
access to safe legal abortion so we're

286
00:13:16,130 --> 00:13:13,339
unashamedly socially progressive

287
00:13:16,860 --> 00:13:16,140
economically we would say that we are

288
00:13:19,130 --> 00:13:16,870
prudent

289
00:13:22,340 --> 00:13:19,140
because we're civil liberties and

290
00:13:26,250 --> 00:13:22,350
somewhat libertarian party wearing favor

291
00:13:29,450 --> 00:13:26,260
more rather than less freedom for adults

292
00:13:32,190 --> 00:13:29,460
but with that freedom obviously comes

293
00:13:34,260 --> 00:13:32,200
responsibility so and we're wearing

294
00:13:36,660 --> 00:13:34,270
favor of overall of smaller government

295
00:13:39,290 --> 00:13:36,670
rather than larger government less

296
00:13:42,090 --> 00:13:39,300
bureaucracy rather than more bureaucracy

297
00:13:45,450 --> 00:13:42,100
so socially progressive economically

298
00:13:47,820 --> 00:13:45,460
prudent and environmentally we're not

299
00:13:51,329 --> 00:13:47,830
ideological environmentally we tend to

300
00:13:53,610 --> 00:13:51,339
be a party that unashamedly looks to the

301
00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:53,620
signs and the evidence in our

302
00:13:57,660 --> 00:13:55,810
environmental policies so for example we

303
00:14:00,930 --> 00:13:57,670
are obviously committed to a clean

304
00:14:04,829 --> 00:14:00,940
energy future but we wouldn't rule out a

305
00:14:06,329 --> 00:14:04,839
nuclear factor in a clean energy future

306
00:14:08,519 --> 00:14:06,339
we don't think we've got enough

307
00:14:10,710 --> 00:14:08,529
information yet to know whether or not

308
00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:10,720
that would be viable or next sense for

309
00:14:16,140 --> 00:14:13,050
Australia but we wouldn't rule it out on

310
00:14:17,550 --> 00:14:16,150
ideological grounds I think that's a

311
00:14:21,269 --> 00:14:17,560
very good attitude and I think a lot of

312
00:14:23,790 --> 00:14:21,279
skeptics would would identify with many

313
00:14:25,710 --> 00:14:23,800
of the policies of the Australian sex

314
00:14:29,460 --> 00:14:25,720
body again you can check those out folks

315
00:14:31,410 --> 00:14:29,470
at sex party orgy you things that I

316
00:14:34,670 --> 00:14:31,420
think many skeptics would be in tune

317
00:14:37,290 --> 00:14:34,680
with like dying with dignity for example

318
00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:37,300
mm-hmm-hmm another one that might be of

319
00:14:42,990 --> 00:14:39,610
interest is our policy on drug law

320
00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:43,000
reform I hasten to say that despite the

321
00:14:48,990 --> 00:14:46,570
fact that we use a marijuana leaf as our

322
00:14:52,350 --> 00:14:49,000
symbol for that from what we're not

323
00:14:53,970 --> 00:14:52,360
saying is open slather let's just let

324
00:14:56,280 --> 00:14:53,980
everybody use whatever lyssa true

325
00:14:59,730 --> 00:14:56,290
illicit drugs they want what we are

326
00:15:02,820 --> 00:14:59,740
saying is the war on drugs has clearly

327
00:15:05,790 --> 00:15:02,830
failed and has been incredibly expensive

328
00:15:08,310 --> 00:15:05,800
so stop let's stop hitting our heads

329
00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:08,320
against a brick wall if something if a

330
00:15:13,260 --> 00:15:11,170
policy or a strategy is failing then

331
00:15:15,570 --> 00:15:13,270
let's try something different and in

332
00:15:18,750 --> 00:15:15,580
fact there are different strategies to

333
00:15:22,050 --> 00:15:18,760
trying to deal with the harm that might

334
00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:22,060
be caused by drugs and Portugal comes to

335
00:15:28,590 --> 00:15:24,970
mind for example overall we're in favour

336
00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:28,600
of decriminalization but regulation of

337
00:15:33,590 --> 00:15:30,810
drugs it certainly sounds like

338
00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:33,600
you've given you personally of course

339
00:15:37,610 --> 00:15:35,730
but the party in general has given all

340
00:15:40,010 --> 00:15:37,620
these matters a great deal of thought

341
00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:40,020
and I can't help noticing and detecting

342
00:15:44,750 --> 00:15:41,730
the very strong science and evidence

343
00:15:46,329 --> 00:15:44,760
theme through your policies absolutely

344
00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:46,339
and it's one of the things that really

345
00:15:52,190 --> 00:15:49,770
attracted me to the sex party as you

346
00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:52,200
would know Richard I've been president

347
00:15:58,040 --> 00:15:55,410
of rationalist Society Australia for a

348
00:16:01,010 --> 00:15:58,050
number of years before the last federal

349
00:16:04,519 --> 00:16:01,020
election the rationalists ran a secular

350
00:16:06,860 --> 00:16:04,529
scorecard in which we assessed the

351
00:16:10,510 --> 00:16:06,870
policies and public pronouncements of a

352
00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:10,520
number of political parties against our

353
00:16:16,820 --> 00:16:14,690
10-point plan for a secular Australia

354
00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:16,830
unsurprisingly the secular party of

355
00:16:22,700 --> 00:16:19,410
australia came out very well but so did

356
00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:22,710
the sex party and that's how i got sort

357
00:16:28,460 --> 00:16:25,410
of beyond the name to really read the

358
00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:28,470
policies of the sex party and discovered

359
00:16:35,060 --> 00:16:32,610
that they overlap almost perfectly with

360
00:16:37,610 --> 00:16:35,070
the policies that many in the

361
00:16:40,490 --> 00:16:37,620
freethought movement have been pursuing

362
00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:40,500
for a number of years and so that that

363
00:16:45,710 --> 00:16:42,930
was how I sort of got to know the sex

364
00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:45,720
party and I think like a lot of people

365
00:16:51,770 --> 00:16:50,010
the name was a bit of an impediment but

366
00:16:53,900 --> 00:16:51,780
if you can get beyond the name John

367
00:16:55,370 --> 00:16:53,910
actually read the policies if they do

368
00:16:57,590 --> 00:16:55,380
make a lot of sense to a lot of people

369
00:17:00,520 --> 00:16:57,600
oh you know we've had this problem with

370
00:17:03,410 --> 00:17:00,530
the the term skeptics for since forever

371
00:17:05,780 --> 00:17:03,420
because everybody in their dog likes to

372
00:17:07,970 --> 00:17:05,790
use the term skeptic to promote

373
00:17:09,890 --> 00:17:07,980
themselves for example moon landing

374
00:17:12,319 --> 00:17:09,900
skeptics and climate change sceptics

375
00:17:14,900 --> 00:17:12,329
drives us crazy the sort of things that

376
00:17:17,569 --> 00:17:14,910
the conspiracy theories here it's like

377
00:17:19,340 --> 00:17:17,579
to call themselves what Meredith look

378
00:17:21,770 --> 00:17:19,350
thank you so much for sparing some time

379
00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:21,780
to chat to the skeptic zone folks as you

380
00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:24,890
know we don't we're not a political

381
00:17:29,900 --> 00:17:27,810
podcast we don't push politics one way

382
00:17:32,060 --> 00:17:29,910
or the other particularly but innocent

383
00:17:34,580 --> 00:17:32,070
in this instance I'll certainly pleased

384
00:17:36,050 --> 00:17:34,590
to chat to you Meredith because of the

385
00:17:38,380 --> 00:17:36,060
policies of the sex party is

386
00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:38,390
specifically because of that excellent

387
00:17:42,770 --> 00:17:41,250
response to merrill dory and folks if

388
00:17:44,270 --> 00:17:42,780
you want to read that response for

389
00:17:46,550 --> 00:17:44,280
yourself and find out more about

390
00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:46,560
Australian sex party maybe you can find

391
00:17:52,790 --> 00:17:49,770
out if they're for you sex party okay

392
00:17:54,770 --> 00:17:52,800
you is the address to head for but for

393
00:17:56,770 --> 00:17:54,780
now dr. Meredith Doig from the

394
00:18:14,360 --> 00:17:56,780
Australian sex party thank you very much

395
00:18:17,570 --> 00:18:14,370
thanks Richard great to talk to you hey

396
00:18:19,310 --> 00:18:17,580
Richard oh hi Trish Wow would you like a

397
00:18:21,110 --> 00:18:19,320
coffee yeah thanks what you're working

398
00:18:23,450 --> 00:18:21,120
on I'm trying to come up with a new

399
00:18:26,270 --> 00:18:23,460
promo to play on the skeptic zone who's

400
00:18:28,700 --> 00:18:26,280
it for the good thinking society in the

401
00:18:31,010 --> 00:18:28,710
UK you know Michael Marshall Simon Singh

402
00:18:32,810 --> 00:18:31,020
Nora Thomas and background oh yeah I

403
00:18:35,290 --> 00:18:32,820
know them they've been doing some great

404
00:18:38,090 --> 00:18:35,300
work investigating veterinary homeopathy

405
00:18:40,670 --> 00:18:38,100
vetri homeopathy what you sugar pills

406
00:18:41,930 --> 00:18:40,680
for cows I know right and also they're

407
00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:41,940
looking at some of the dodgy medical

408
00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:43,890
advice given by UK chiropractors I'll

409
00:18:50,150 --> 00:18:46,050
mention all that in the promo now their

410
00:18:53,270 --> 00:18:50,160
website is good thinking society ball

411
00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:53,280
and they've recently been reporting on

412
00:18:57,620 --> 00:18:54,810
the resurgence of faith healer peter

413
00:18:59,060 --> 00:18:57,630
Popoff Peter papa great ok look I think

414
00:19:07,740 --> 00:18:59,070
so that it gives me something good to

415
00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:12,400
sigh con las vegas now it's not an

416
00:19:16,900 --> 00:19:14,690
illusion sigh con is coming to Vegas and

417
00:19:18,850 --> 00:19:16,910
you're not just hearing things for too

418
00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:18,860
long skeptics have been wandering the

419
00:19:24,340 --> 00:19:20,930
desert parched and aimless wandering

420
00:19:26,410 --> 00:19:24,350
when oh when will they find an oasis but

421
00:19:27,970 --> 00:19:26,420
just on the horizon hope beggars at last

422
00:19:29,770 --> 00:19:27,980
a chance for critical thinkers from

423
00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:29,780
around the world to celebrate with the

424
00:19:33,690 --> 00:19:31,730
brightest minds and biggest

425
00:19:37,420 --> 00:19:33,700
personalities and science and skepticism

426
00:19:43,210 --> 00:19:37,430
it's no Mirage it's psych on 2016 and

427
00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:43,220
this time it's in Vegas October the 27th

428
00:19:47,830 --> 00:19:45,890
to the 30th come to the Excalibur Hotel

429
00:19:49,300 --> 00:19:47,840
and Casino in Las Vegas where brilliant

430
00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:49,310
speakers will make the City of Light

431
00:19:54,910 --> 00:19:52,730
truly shine with skeptic stars like

432
00:19:57,330 --> 00:19:54,920
evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins

433
00:19:59,890 --> 00:19:57,340
science education champion Eugenie Scott

434
00:20:02,920 --> 00:19:59,900
Sethi astronomer Jill tarter and many

435
00:20:07,210 --> 00:20:02,930
more to be announced and yes James the

436
00:20:09,100 --> 00:20:07,220
amazing Randi will be there to Saigon

437
00:20:11,650 --> 00:20:09,110
2016 is a production of the committee

438
00:20:13,660 --> 00:20:11,660
for skeptical inquiry the people who

439
00:20:16,360 --> 00:20:13,670
bring you the skeptical Inquirer a

440
00:20:19,450 --> 00:20:16,370
magazine the group that began organized

441
00:20:21,220 --> 00:20:19,460
skepticism a generation ago and what

442
00:20:24,250 --> 00:20:21,230
better location for a conference of

443
00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:24,260
skeptics than a city full of illusions

444
00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:27,170
don't wait unlike claims of celebrity

445
00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:29,330
psychics conspiracy theorists and alt

446
00:20:35,860 --> 00:20:32,210
med hucksters this is no illusion sigh

447
00:20:49,970 --> 00:20:35,870
con is real register now at WWDC

448
00:20:58,620 --> 00:20:53,340
now it's time for dr. Rachel reports

449
00:21:01,170 --> 00:20:58,630
with dr. Rachel Dunlop hello listeners

450
00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:01,180
and welcome to dr. Richie reports back

451
00:21:07,500 --> 00:21:03,610
after quite a long absence due to

452
00:21:10,950 --> 00:21:07,510
science primarily this week a program

453
00:21:13,230 --> 00:21:10,960
that aired in the USA a production of

454
00:21:16,020 --> 00:21:13,240
PBS and the New York Times aired in

455
00:21:18,690 --> 00:21:16,030
Australia concerning supplements and

456
00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:18,700
whether they're worth taking now in

457
00:21:22,350 --> 00:21:19,930
Australia the vitamin and supplement

458
00:21:24,450 --> 00:21:22,360
industry is big business and an

459
00:21:27,150 --> 00:21:24,460
estimated seventy five percent of the

460
00:21:28,740 --> 00:21:27,160
population reportedly use some form of

461
00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:28,750
complementary medicines whether the

462
00:21:33,140 --> 00:21:31,090
spoofs supplements and vitamins ranging

463
00:21:37,470 --> 00:21:33,150
front to other things like aromatherapy

464
00:21:41,070 --> 00:21:37,480
homeopathy chiropractic anything along

465
00:21:44,070 --> 00:21:41,080
those lines but the show that aired on

466
00:21:46,050 --> 00:21:44,080
Monday on the ABC now presented evidence

467
00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:46,060
to show that some vitamin supplements

468
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:48,250
and protein powders don't work at best

469
00:21:53,580 --> 00:21:50,410
and at worst they can actually cause

470
00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:53,590
harm so this investigation looked into

471
00:21:57,120 --> 00:21:55,050
the complex issues surrounding

472
00:21:59,520 --> 00:21:57,130
supplements in North America in

473
00:22:02,400 --> 00:21:59,530
particular and it was an eye-opening

474
00:22:04,770 --> 00:22:02,410
report that detailed a web of lobbying

475
00:22:07,230 --> 00:22:04,780
and legislation that's designed to

476
00:22:08,970 --> 00:22:07,240
protect the industry in the USA but

477
00:22:11,700 --> 00:22:08,980
which ultimately leaves consumers at

478
00:22:14,460 --> 00:22:11,710
risk now the issue of supplements

479
00:22:16,740 --> 00:22:14,470
causing harm was covered up front with a

480
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:16,750
group of patients in Hawaii who suffered

481
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:18,730
limba damage following the ingestion of

482
00:22:23,100 --> 00:22:21,010
a dietary supplement and this led to

483
00:22:25,740 --> 00:22:23,110
many of them requiring transplants at

484
00:22:27,660 --> 00:22:25,750
the other extreme was a revelation that

485
00:22:30,120 --> 00:22:27,670
up to sixty percent of supplements

486
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:30,130
analyzed independently for the active

487
00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:31,930
ingredient didn't contain what was

488
00:22:37,650 --> 00:22:35,050
stated on the label now this study was

489
00:22:39,750 --> 00:22:37,660
done in a random sample of 44 popular

490
00:22:42,030 --> 00:22:39,760
herbal supplements purchased from North

491
00:22:45,180 --> 00:22:42,040
American stores and analyzed for their

492
00:22:47,340 --> 00:22:45,190
DNA fingerprints now in one-third of

493
00:22:50,490 --> 00:22:47,350
these sampled they showed outright

494
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:50,500
substitution so not only was the active

495
00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:52,690
ingredient not there something else was

496
00:22:58,160 --> 00:22:55,570
in its place and there was no trace

497
00:23:01,050 --> 00:22:58,170
of what was advertised on the bottle

498
00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:01,060
others contained undisclosed fillers

499
00:23:06,750 --> 00:23:04,690
like soybean wheat and rice flour ginkgo

500
00:23:09,210 --> 00:23:06,760
biloba supplements which were promoted

501
00:23:11,820 --> 00:23:09,220
as memory Hans's were mixed with fillers

502
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:11,830
black walnuts and this is potentially

503
00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:13,810
deadly hazard for people that have nut

504
00:23:18,060 --> 00:23:15,250
allergies and don't know that they're

505
00:23:20,430 --> 00:23:18,070
buying nuts in their supplement so these

506
00:23:21,870 --> 00:23:20,440
findings make it very difficult to have

507
00:23:25,050 --> 00:23:21,880
any faith in the usefulness of

508
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:25,060
supplements or the safety of them but

509
00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:26,730
even in the case of unadulterated

510
00:23:31,710 --> 00:23:29,290
supplements that is those do have active

511
00:23:33,330 --> 00:23:31,720
ingredient scientists and doctors warned

512
00:23:36,030 --> 00:23:33,340
that in the absence of a medically

513
00:23:38,490 --> 00:23:36,040
diagnosed deficiency we are still taking

514
00:23:40,980 --> 00:23:38,500
too many of these things a recent study

515
00:23:43,110 --> 00:23:40,990
also reported that taking extra vitamins

516
00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:43,120
and minerals can actually do more harm

517
00:23:46,950 --> 00:23:45,250
than good and in some cases may even

518
00:23:50,310 --> 00:23:46,960
increase your risk of getting cancer

519
00:23:53,070 --> 00:23:50,320
rather than reduce it so in addition

520
00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:53,080
some commercially available preparations

521
00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:54,850
of fish oil which is supposed to be

522
00:23:58,800 --> 00:23:56,530
helpful in reducing the risk of

523
00:24:01,590 --> 00:23:58,810
cardiovascular disease were actually

524
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:01,600
shown to be off so they were rancid they

525
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:04,090
had oxidized as a result of poor

526
00:24:09,450 --> 00:24:07,330
processing procedures and this in fact a

527
00:24:11,820 --> 00:24:09,460
means that you're taking a substance

528
00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:11,830
that can trigger inflammatory pathways

529
00:24:16,500 --> 00:24:14,290
in your cells during the exact opposite

530
00:24:19,710 --> 00:24:16,510
of what this supplement is supposed to

531
00:24:21,060 --> 00:24:19,720
do so by now if you're thinking well you

532
00:24:22,410 --> 00:24:21,070
know what happens in North America

533
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:22,420
doesn't really affect me here in

534
00:24:28,410 --> 00:24:25,450
Australia you might be wrong because to

535
00:24:32,220 --> 00:24:28,420
hermosa plement can be bought online of

536
00:24:33,900 --> 00:24:32,230
course and since 2011 I have been linked

537
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:33,910
to at least six Australian organ

538
00:24:38,730 --> 00:24:36,610
transplants now this includes the recent

539
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:38,740
case of a perv man who was given two

540
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:41,170
weeks to live and required an emergency

541
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:43,090
liver transplant after taking a protein

542
00:24:47,580 --> 00:24:45,610
powder that contained a green tea

543
00:24:51,210 --> 00:24:47,590
extract and a supplement containing

544
00:24:54,120 --> 00:24:51,220
garcinia cambogia now such was his

545
00:24:56,550 --> 00:24:54,130
emergency that he had no choice but to

546
00:24:58,740 --> 00:24:56,560
accept a liver infected with hepatitis B

547
00:25:01,530 --> 00:24:58,750
so now he's not only taking

548
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:01,540
immunosuppressive drugs to maintain the

549
00:25:06,900 --> 00:25:03,490
transplant but he's also taking drugs

550
00:25:08,810 --> 00:25:06,910
for hepatitis B infection now Australian

551
00:25:10,610 --> 00:25:08,820
regulatory authorities

552
00:25:12,740 --> 00:25:10,620
responded to this by saying that they're

553
00:25:14,899 --> 00:25:12,750
continuing to investigate this report

554
00:25:16,370 --> 00:25:14,909
and the results will be made public if

555
00:25:18,740 --> 00:25:16,380
there are sufficient evidence of a

556
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:18,750
safety issue i would say that there

557
00:25:23,269 --> 00:25:21,690
probably is but then again australia's

558
00:25:27,529 --> 00:25:23,279
regulations when it comes to supplements

559
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:27,539
are also woefully inadequate so first of

560
00:25:33,409 --> 00:25:30,090
all if a product is intended to be used

561
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:33,419
as a supplement it must be listed with

562
00:25:38,210 --> 00:25:36,090
the Therapeutic Goods Administration but

563
00:25:40,610 --> 00:25:38,220
the process of getting it on that list

564
00:25:43,749 --> 00:25:40,620
only requires you to fill out an online

565
00:25:46,159 --> 00:25:43,759
form select from a list of pre-approved

566
00:25:48,350 --> 00:25:46,169
ingredients and pre-approved means that

567
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:48,360
they've been tested for safety in

568
00:25:53,090 --> 00:25:50,610
isolation and they're considered low

569
00:25:55,399 --> 00:25:53,100
risk and then you must state that you

570
00:25:57,499 --> 00:25:55,409
hold information to substantiate the

571
00:25:59,629 --> 00:25:57,509
products claims you don't have to

572
00:26:02,240 --> 00:25:59,639
present that evidence you just have to

573
00:26:04,519 --> 00:26:02,250
say you have it now what is missing from

574
00:26:07,340 --> 00:26:04,529
this picture well you might have already

575
00:26:08,629 --> 00:26:07,350
picked it up is that testing of each

576
00:26:10,249 --> 00:26:08,639
batch of supplement for the

577
00:26:12,619 --> 00:26:10,259
concentration and safety of the

578
00:26:14,810 --> 00:26:12,629
indicated ingredients does not occur

579
00:26:18,470 --> 00:26:14,820
before the supplement ends up on the

580
00:26:20,570 --> 00:26:18,480
shelf in your pharmacy what's also

581
00:26:22,730 --> 00:26:20,580
missing is checks that the claims made

582
00:26:25,279 --> 00:26:22,740
on the bottle can be substantiated prior

583
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:25,289
to the product going on sale so whilst

584
00:26:29,360 --> 00:26:27,210
that our compliance checks that happen

585
00:26:30,759 --> 00:26:29,370
randomly and on a percentage of the

586
00:26:33,740 --> 00:26:30,769
products that are out on the shelves

587
00:26:35,930 --> 00:26:33,750
only a fraction of the total products

588
00:26:39,350 --> 00:26:35,940
listed will actually get checked and

589
00:26:41,779 --> 00:26:39,360
each time this does happen dozens of

590
00:26:44,090 --> 00:26:41,789
products are canceled for reasons

591
00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:44,100
ranging from unsubstantiated claims on

592
00:26:49,310 --> 00:26:47,129
the label to unacceptable quality to

593
00:26:51,649 --> 00:26:49,320
unacceptable safety or the fact that

594
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:51,659
they just don't work so if we look at

595
00:26:57,889 --> 00:26:53,490
the most recent compliance should be

596
00:27:01,879 --> 00:26:57,899
done by the TGA covering January 2015 to

597
00:27:04,340 --> 00:27:01,889
februari 2016 we find that seventy-four

598
00:27:07,519 --> 00:27:04,350
percent of products checked for

599
00:27:10,460 --> 00:27:07,529
compliance failed seventy-four percent

600
00:27:13,039 --> 00:27:10,470
of products you can go and buy off your

601
00:27:15,740 --> 00:27:13,049
pharmacy shelf now failed compliance

602
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:15,750
checks by the TGA now this was for

603
00:27:21,820 --> 00:27:18,570
various reasons including labeling and

604
00:27:24,279 --> 00:27:21,830
advertising but also for evidence

605
00:27:28,269 --> 00:27:24,289
lack of evidence for the products claims

606
00:27:30,789 --> 00:27:28,279
and also in around ten to twenty percent

607
00:27:33,759 --> 00:27:30,799
of cases this was to do with quality of

608
00:27:36,669 --> 00:27:33,769
the product itself so this is not a

609
00:27:39,669 --> 00:27:36,679
small amount of fail in terms of

610
00:27:41,830 --> 00:27:39,679
compliance and can you imagine if this

611
00:27:43,779 --> 00:27:41,840
happened to big farmer products there

612
00:27:47,019 --> 00:27:43,789
would be a scandal people would be

613
00:27:48,340 --> 00:27:47,029
furious but because it's supplements and

614
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:48,350
they're warm and fuzzy and they're

615
00:27:54,180 --> 00:27:50,570
natural therefore they must be safe

616
00:27:58,299 --> 00:27:54,190
nobody seems to care and this also

617
00:28:00,370 --> 00:27:58,309
doesn't even cover supplements that are

618
00:28:02,710 --> 00:28:00,380
not listed on the australian register of

619
00:28:04,539 --> 00:28:02,720
therapeutic goods so some traditional

620
00:28:07,330 --> 00:28:04,549
chinese medicine products are not listed

621
00:28:09,820 --> 00:28:07,340
on the artg and these have been found to

622
00:28:11,639 --> 00:28:09,830
be contaminated through studies with

623
00:28:14,259 --> 00:28:11,649
pharmaceuticals such as paracetamol

624
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:14,269
antihistamines antibiotics blood

625
00:28:18,730 --> 00:28:16,610
thinners as well as significant levels

626
00:28:21,669 --> 00:28:18,740
of toxic heavy metals such as arsenic

627
00:28:23,649 --> 00:28:21,679
cadmium and lead so meanwhile although

628
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:23,659
Australian supplement manufacturers are

629
00:28:28,299 --> 00:28:25,850
required to adhere to good manufacturing

630
00:28:30,549 --> 00:28:28,309
practice their sites are also inspected

631
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:30,559
and listed by the TGA but they're not

632
00:28:35,740 --> 00:28:32,210
required to prove that their products

633
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:35,750
are safe or effective so consumers can

634
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:37,850
easily be lulled into a false sense of

635
00:28:42,460 --> 00:28:40,610
security here especially if a product is

636
00:28:46,299 --> 00:28:42,470
stamped with an official-looking number

637
00:28:48,250 --> 00:28:46,309
which it is if it's on the artg and sold

638
00:28:52,090 --> 00:28:48,260
beside evidence based medicines in a

639
00:28:54,669 --> 00:28:52,100
pharmacy but consumers should be careful

640
00:28:56,620 --> 00:28:54,679
because it's not the case that just

641
00:29:00,539 --> 00:28:56,630
because there's a government number that

642
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:00,549
this product a works b has been tested

643
00:29:07,330 --> 00:29:04,250
so like in North America in Australia we

644
00:29:08,889 --> 00:29:07,340
also have a vocal supplement lobby with

645
00:29:11,889 --> 00:29:08,899
connections to powerful people in

646
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:11,899
powerful places and this means that in

647
00:29:18,159 --> 00:29:14,570
some cases we're not putting consumer

648
00:29:19,659 --> 00:29:18,169
rights above profits until that happens

649
00:29:21,940 --> 00:29:19,669
we should steer clear of

650
00:29:24,970 --> 00:29:21,950
over-the-counter supplements unless you

651
00:29:26,950 --> 00:29:24,980
have a medically diagnosed deficiency in

652
00:29:31,570 --> 00:29:26,960
which your doctor prescribes you a

653
00:29:33,879 --> 00:29:31,580
supplement buyer beware now if you would

654
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:33,889
like to read this report it has been

655
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:35,450
published on the conversation

656
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:37,970
website under my name Rachel Dunlop and

657
00:29:43,899 --> 00:29:40,850
if you'd like to see the PBS New York

658
00:29:46,269 --> 00:29:43,909
Times investigation it will be up on ABC

659
00:29:48,549 --> 00:29:46,279
iview for the next couple of weeks in

660
00:29:50,649 --> 00:29:48,559
the north in North America it actually

661
00:29:52,659 --> 00:29:50,659
add in January this year so you should

662
00:29:55,389 --> 00:29:52,669
be able to find it somewhere maybe even

663
00:30:06,250 --> 00:29:55,399
on the tubes and until next time this

664
00:30:08,470 --> 00:30:06,260
has been dr. Richie report back watch

665
00:30:10,899 --> 00:30:08,480
your guide to quackery health fraud and

666
00:30:14,049 --> 00:30:10,909
intelligent decisions operated by

667
00:30:16,090 --> 00:30:14,059
stephen barrett md quite watch is now an

668
00:30:18,039 --> 00:30:16,100
international network of people who are

669
00:30:21,159 --> 00:30:18,049
concerned about health-related fraud

670
00:30:24,009 --> 00:30:21,169
sniffs fans fallacies and misconduct its

671
00:30:25,990 --> 00:30:24,019
primary focus is on quackery related

672
00:30:28,299 --> 00:30:26,000
information that is difficult or

673
00:30:31,690 --> 00:30:28,309
impossible to get elsewhere articles on

674
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:31,700
quackery include quackery how should it

675
00:30:38,889 --> 00:30:35,330
be defined how it sells 26 ways to spot

676
00:30:41,409 --> 00:30:38,899
it how it comes cancer patients 7

677
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:41,419
warning signs for bogus science why

678
00:30:46,870 --> 00:30:43,850
health professionals become quacks and

679
00:30:49,799 --> 00:30:46,880
many more including in-depth looks at

680
00:30:54,730 --> 00:30:49,809
acupuncture chiropractic homeopathy

681
00:31:12,149 --> 00:30:54,740
naturopathy and much more visit w WH

682
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:16,120
it's the raw skeptic report with Heidi

683
00:31:28,090 --> 00:31:26,570
Robertson hello everyone this week I'm

684
00:31:30,250 --> 00:31:28,100
reporting on a follow-up of the

685
00:31:33,370 --> 00:31:30,260
Melbourne chiropractor who manipulated

686
00:31:36,100 --> 00:31:33,380
the spine of a four day old baby filmed

687
00:31:39,070 --> 00:31:36,110
it put it on YouTube where it

688
00:31:44,590 --> 00:31:39,080
subsequently went viral and was reported

689
00:31:47,070 --> 00:31:44,600
on worldwide on May the 16 2016 the

690
00:31:49,750 --> 00:31:47,080
Sydney Morning Herald ran a story titled

691
00:31:52,629 --> 00:31:49,760
chiropractor Ian Ross Perot temporarily

692
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:52,639
banned from treating children by Julia

693
00:31:59,320 --> 00:31:55,850
Madhu and Nick toscano quote the

694
00:32:01,480 --> 00:31:59,330
chiropractic board of Australia CBA has

695
00:32:03,820 --> 00:32:01,490
ordered parkdale chiropractor Ian Ross

696
00:32:06,580 --> 00:32:03,830
Perot not to treat patients under the

697
00:32:09,730 --> 00:32:06,590
age of 18 while it investigates his

698
00:32:12,100 --> 00:32:09,740
conduct in a statement on the Australian

699
00:32:14,980 --> 00:32:12,110
health practitioner regulation agency's

700
00:32:18,100 --> 00:32:14,990
website dr. Ross pura has entered an

701
00:32:21,759 --> 00:32:18,110
undertaking not to treat babies children

702
00:32:24,820 --> 00:32:21,769
and teenagers during that time and quote

703
00:32:26,980 --> 00:32:24,830
his band will remain in place until June

704
00:32:29,379 --> 00:32:26,990
the second and it will certainly be

705
00:32:32,230 --> 00:32:29,389
interesting what the outcome of the

706
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:32,240
investigation will be and how it may

707
00:32:37,450 --> 00:32:34,850
impact on the treatment of babies by

708
00:32:40,330 --> 00:32:37,460
chiropractors in the future another

709
00:32:42,279 --> 00:32:40,340
quote from the article last month

710
00:32:43,899 --> 00:32:42,289
Fairfax Media revealed the Royal

711
00:32:46,539 --> 00:32:43,909
Australian College of General

712
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:46,549
Practitioners had told its members to

713
00:32:51,460 --> 00:32:49,250
not refer patients to chiropractors and

714
00:32:54,340 --> 00:32:51,470
was calling for the federal government

715
00:32:57,310 --> 00:32:54,350
and private health insurers to stop

716
00:32:59,950 --> 00:32:57,320
paying them for questionable treatments

717
00:33:02,980 --> 00:32:59,960
at the time president of the College of

718
00:33:04,810 --> 00:33:02,990
GPS dr. Frank Jones said there was no

719
00:33:07,029 --> 00:33:04,820
evidence to support chiropractic

720
00:33:10,029 --> 00:33:07,039
treatment of infants spines which

721
00:33:11,150 --> 00:33:10,039
appeared cruel in the video he said it

722
00:33:13,370 --> 00:33:11,160
may have put the bay

723
00:33:15,770 --> 00:33:13,380
at risk of fractures and other soft

724
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:15,780
tissue damage you could rupture

725
00:33:21,860 --> 00:33:19,170
ligaments muscles and even bone if they

726
00:33:25,490 --> 00:33:21,870
have underlying bone problems the GP

727
00:33:28,250 --> 00:33:25,500
obstetrician said Health Minister Jill

728
00:33:31,750 --> 00:33:28,260
Hennessy called for an urgent crackdown

729
00:33:35,270 --> 00:33:31,760
on chiropractors performing unproven and

730
00:33:38,690 --> 00:33:35,280
potentially unsafe procedures on infants

731
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:38,700
end quote as reported on the skeptic

732
00:33:44,510 --> 00:33:41,970
zone Studio 10 an Australian television

733
00:33:47,450 --> 00:33:44,520
show had Ian Ross Perot on their program

734
00:33:50,750 --> 00:33:47,460
recently to defend his treatment of the

735
00:33:53,450 --> 00:33:50,760
four day old baby studio 10 after the

736
00:33:57,140 --> 00:33:53,460
cba sanctioning of ross perot ran an

737
00:33:59,060 --> 00:33:57,150
update with panelist Joe Hildebrand not

738
00:34:01,790 --> 00:33:59,070
holding back on what he thought of

739
00:34:04,250 --> 00:34:01,800
rosboroughs suspension here is a

740
00:34:07,850 --> 00:34:04,260
recording of firstly part of rosboroughs

741
00:34:10,490 --> 00:34:07,860
defense and Hilda brands subsequent

742
00:34:12,650 --> 00:34:10,500
statements dr. Ross Perot joined the

743
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:12,660
studio 10 earlier this month in his only

744
00:34:17,780 --> 00:34:14,970
TV interview and had this to say about

745
00:34:20,930 --> 00:34:17,790
the viral video what's happening here is

746
00:34:23,630 --> 00:34:20,940
that you're not actually you not know

747
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:23,640
what you're seeing the the pressure of

748
00:34:27,950 --> 00:34:25,050
my fingers just the end of my finger

749
00:34:30,350 --> 00:34:27,960
just a fingertip and it's directed to a

750
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:30,360
very specific part of the child's

751
00:34:35,659 --> 00:34:33,290
dysfunctional spine it's it's not

752
00:34:39,230 --> 00:34:35,669
putting a force in the body that the

753
00:34:41,060 --> 00:34:39,240
baby can't handle and it was it would be

754
00:34:43,610 --> 00:34:41,070
a lot more dangerous to leave that joint

755
00:34:44,990 --> 00:34:43,620
in the wrong position and and you know

756
00:34:47,240 --> 00:34:45,000
we're trying to shine the light on this

757
00:34:49,700 --> 00:34:47,250
I was trying to be I guess transparent

758
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:49,710
we didn't have to post it but we wanted

759
00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:53,130
to educate the public that sometimes one

760
00:34:58,490 --> 00:34:56,370
just one specific correction in the

761
00:35:01,370 --> 00:34:58,500
right spot can make a massive difference

762
00:35:03,710 --> 00:35:01,380
to the health of a baby and also to the

763
00:35:05,030 --> 00:35:03,720
life of the parents I think the video

764
00:35:06,860 --> 00:35:05,040
looks right and I don't think he sounds

765
00:35:08,540 --> 00:35:06,870
credible I'm very glad that he's been

766
00:35:10,700 --> 00:35:08,550
suspended and the be interesting to see

767
00:35:13,010 --> 00:35:10,710
what happens next month when the

768
00:35:15,050 --> 00:35:13,020
chiropractor chiropractors board

769
00:35:17,330 --> 00:35:15,060
themselves the industry body look into

770
00:35:19,390 --> 00:35:17,340
it the industry body itself even if you

771
00:35:22,430 --> 00:35:19,400
even if you accept the chiropractic is a

772
00:35:24,099 --> 00:35:22,440
legitimate form of treatment their own

773
00:35:26,829 --> 00:35:24,109
industry board has said that

774
00:35:28,599 --> 00:35:26,839
is not right they have not endorsed that

775
00:35:30,579 --> 00:35:28,609
practice I said so on its website it

776
00:35:32,559 --> 00:35:30,589
said so on its website so if he's even

777
00:35:34,390 --> 00:35:32,569
outside the sphere of normal so there

778
00:35:36,430 --> 00:35:34,400
are some of the enquiry would be

779
00:35:38,829 --> 00:35:36,440
extremely interested it'll be extremely

780
00:35:41,589 --> 00:35:38,839
interesting rosboroughs chiropractic

781
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:41,599
facebook page is no longer online and

782
00:35:47,559 --> 00:35:44,690
he's only just removed the many YouTube

783
00:35:51,249 --> 00:35:47,569
videos he linked to from his clinics

784
00:35:53,559 --> 00:35:51,259
website this week more troubling

785
00:35:56,970 --> 00:35:53,569
revelations have emerged in the media

786
00:35:58,989 --> 00:35:56,980
regarding chiropractors treating babies

787
00:36:04,180 --> 00:35:58,999
this is from The Sydney Morning Herald

788
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:04,190
may the 19th by Kate Orbison and Rainier

789
00:36:10,479 --> 00:36:07,970
Spooner chiropractors have been caught

790
00:36:13,799 --> 00:36:10,489
allegedly sneaking into australian

791
00:36:17,009 --> 00:36:13,809
maternity wards to treat newborn babies

792
00:36:20,079 --> 00:36:17,019
publicly flouting their own regulations

793
00:36:22,059 --> 00:36:20,089
the behavior has been slammed by other

794
00:36:24,430 --> 00:36:22,069
practitioners who say they are fed up

795
00:36:27,579 --> 00:36:24,440
with a minority tarnishing the

796
00:36:30,099 --> 00:36:27,589
profession New South Wales chiropractor

797
00:36:33,099 --> 00:36:30,109
grant bond allegedly snuck into

798
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:33,109
Wollongong private hospital to treat a

799
00:36:41,309 --> 00:36:36,650
three day old baby claiming his touch

800
00:36:44,380 --> 00:36:41,319
allowed the infant to have his first poo

801
00:36:47,979 --> 00:36:44,390
similar allegations have been leveled at

802
00:36:50,650 --> 00:36:47,989
a Victorian chiropractor a photograph

803
00:36:53,739 --> 00:36:50,660
posted to the Facebook page of dr. bonds

804
00:36:55,269 --> 00:36:53,749
clinic in April shows the chiropractor

805
00:36:57,609 --> 00:36:55,279
with his hands on the back of the

806
00:37:01,029 --> 00:36:57,619
newborn held by his mother in one of the

807
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:01,039
hospital's maternity ward sweats it was

808
00:37:05,859 --> 00:37:02,930
an awesome experience checking the

809
00:37:08,140 --> 00:37:05,869
baby's spine for the first time dr. bond

810
00:37:11,529 --> 00:37:08,150
wrote in the post which has since been

811
00:37:14,739 --> 00:37:11,539
removed as i gently laid my hands on his

812
00:37:18,309 --> 00:37:14,749
spine without even waking he did his

813
00:37:21,519 --> 00:37:18,319
first poo the chief executive of

814
00:37:24,309 --> 00:37:21,529
Wollongong private David Crowe said dr.

815
00:37:25,930 --> 00:37:24,319
bond had entered the board without the

816
00:37:29,499 --> 00:37:25,940
permission of the hospital or the

817
00:37:31,690 --> 00:37:29,509
treating doctor chiropractors are banned

818
00:37:33,940 --> 00:37:31,700
from treating patients inside a health

819
00:37:37,029 --> 00:37:33,950
care facility without the institutions

820
00:37:38,020 --> 00:37:37,039
permission the chiropractor appears to

821
00:37:40,860 --> 00:37:38,030
have presented to the high

822
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:40,870
spittle as a visitor mr. crow said

823
00:37:45,250 --> 00:37:43,490
Fairfax Media has learned a formal

824
00:37:47,770 --> 00:37:45,260
complaint has been made to the New South

825
00:37:50,290 --> 00:37:47,780
Wales health watchdog against dr. bond

826
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:50,300
over the matter dr. bond has been

827
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:53,050
contacted repeatedly for comment a

828
00:37:58,840 --> 00:37:55,970
formal complaint has also been made to

829
00:38:01,930 --> 00:37:58,850
opera against Melbourne chiropractor

830
00:38:04,060 --> 00:38:01,940
Bianca Beaumont after she published a

831
00:38:06,820 --> 00:38:04,070
photograph online that the complainant

832
00:38:09,610 --> 00:38:06,830
alleged shows her treating a newborn in

833
00:38:12,340 --> 00:38:09,620
hospital while the location of the

834
00:38:14,820 --> 00:38:12,350
photograph is unknown and dr. Beaumont

835
00:38:17,650 --> 00:38:14,830
did not respond to requests for comment

836
00:38:19,900 --> 00:38:17,660
two of Melbourne major birthing

837
00:38:22,900 --> 00:38:19,910
hospitals said they would not allow

838
00:38:26,020 --> 00:38:22,910
external chiropractors to treat babies

839
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:26,030
on their wards on her website dr.

840
00:38:31,090 --> 00:38:28,610
Beaumont's clinic spruit to the service

841
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:31,100
with the line our family wellness

842
00:38:36,010 --> 00:38:33,890
clients enjoy having our chiropractors

843
00:38:38,620 --> 00:38:36,020
visit them at home or in hospital to

844
00:38:42,130 --> 00:38:38,630
have the newest members of their family

845
00:38:44,740 --> 00:38:42,140
checked the content was deleted after

846
00:38:48,610 --> 00:38:44,750
her office was contacted by Fairfax

847
00:38:50,770 --> 00:38:48,620
Media in a blog post on Tuesday dr.

848
00:38:53,380 --> 00:38:50,780
Beaumont said her profession was under

849
00:38:56,350 --> 00:38:53,390
fire from social and the mainstream

850
00:38:59,710 --> 00:38:56,360
media after a video of the babys back

851
00:39:01,660 --> 00:38:59,720
being cracked went viral while the

852
00:39:04,420 --> 00:39:01,670
nature of this adjustment is something I

853
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:04,430
am not comfortable with personally I am

854
00:39:08,530 --> 00:39:06,410
horrified to think that this may result

855
00:39:11,590 --> 00:39:08,540
in chiropractic care for children

856
00:39:13,180 --> 00:39:11,600
becoming illegal she wrote the

857
00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:13,190
chiropractic board of Australia

858
00:39:17,380 --> 00:39:15,050
confirmed it was investigating recent

859
00:39:21,060 --> 00:39:17,390
complaints against several chiropractors

860
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:21,070
but does not discuss individual cases

861
00:39:26,350 --> 00:39:24,530
there are no excuses all chiropractors

862
00:39:28,930 --> 00:39:26,360
must meet the requirements of the law

863
00:39:31,780 --> 00:39:28,940
and if they refuse we can take a

864
00:39:34,510 --> 00:39:31,790
disciplinary action or prosecute a

865
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:34,520
spokeswoman said it is all very well for

866
00:39:39,810 --> 00:39:37,010
the CBA to make these statements but can

867
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:39,820
the public trust them to follow through

868
00:39:45,090 --> 00:39:42,410
let's see what their track record of

869
00:39:48,490 --> 00:39:45,100
disciplinary action has been like so far

870
00:39:51,549 --> 00:39:48,500
this is from the reasonable Hank blog

871
00:39:53,890 --> 00:39:51,559
quote in 2013

872
00:39:55,509 --> 00:39:53,900
a story broke regarding chiropractors

873
00:39:59,799 --> 00:39:55,519
who were bragging of sneaking into

874
00:40:01,509 --> 00:39:59,809
hospitals in November 2013 the then

875
00:40:04,089 --> 00:40:01,519
president of the chiropractor's

876
00:40:07,630 --> 00:40:04,099
Association of Australia Laurie tassel

877
00:40:10,420 --> 00:40:07,640
tore his members a collective new one in

878
00:40:12,339 --> 00:40:10,430
his president's report published in the

879
00:40:13,959 --> 00:40:12,349
official periodical of the

880
00:40:16,859 --> 00:40:13,969
chiropractor's Association of Australia

881
00:40:20,289 --> 00:40:16,869
are called the Australian chiropractor

882
00:40:23,079 --> 00:40:20,299
this quote from Laurie tassel the

883
00:40:25,569 --> 00:40:23,089
unethical use of websites to claim cures

884
00:40:27,789 --> 00:40:25,579
for conditions that cannot be supported

885
00:40:30,609 --> 00:40:27,799
by research evidence continues to be a

886
00:40:32,529 --> 00:40:30,619
major problem for the profession at the

887
00:40:37,359 --> 00:40:32,539
time of the national development forum

888
00:40:39,609 --> 00:40:37,369
the CBA had received 155 new complaints

889
00:40:42,219 --> 00:40:39,619
regarding the inappropriate use of

890
00:40:45,609 --> 00:40:42,229
websites this is an issue that continues

891
00:40:48,819 --> 00:40:45,619
to astound me maybe when some of you

892
00:40:51,279 --> 00:40:48,829
receive substantial fines or suspension

893
00:40:54,009 --> 00:40:51,289
you will understand the significance of

894
00:40:56,349 --> 00:40:54,019
your selfish and unprofessional actions

895
00:40:58,859 --> 00:40:56,359
the damage to the profession from the

896
00:41:01,299 --> 00:40:58,869
unprofessional use of social media

897
00:41:02,789 --> 00:41:01,309
personal attacks on chiropractors who

898
00:41:05,019 --> 00:41:02,799
might hold different views to you

899
00:41:07,359 --> 00:41:05,029
bragging about entering hospitals

900
00:41:09,669 --> 00:41:07,369
without permission and posting photos

901
00:41:12,479 --> 00:41:09,679
with well-known speakers openly critical

902
00:41:14,890 --> 00:41:12,489
of vaccinations are not acceptable

903
00:41:17,380 --> 00:41:14,900
complaints to the CBA have been lodged

904
00:41:20,049 --> 00:41:17,390
and some of you will be subject to

905
00:41:22,269 --> 00:41:20,059
disciplinary action once something is

906
00:41:25,630 --> 00:41:22,279
posted on the net it is in the public

907
00:41:30,579 --> 00:41:25,640
domain private or closed sites are being

908
00:41:32,799 --> 00:41:30,589
accessed and trolled end quote back to

909
00:41:35,349 --> 00:41:32,809
the sydney morning herald article quote

910
00:41:37,359 --> 00:41:35,359
at least seven chiropractors have been

911
00:41:39,579 --> 00:41:37,369
sanctioned by the chiropractic board for

912
00:41:42,999 --> 00:41:39,589
treating newborns in hospitals since

913
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:43,009
july 2015 including the president-elect

914
00:41:50,410 --> 00:41:45,410
of the chiropractor's Association of

915
00:41:52,749 --> 00:41:50,420
Australia Helen lavake end quote however

916
00:41:55,509 --> 00:41:52,759
as reasonable Hank points out in his

917
00:41:57,579 --> 00:41:55,519
blog there are many more that have not

918
00:41:59,919 --> 00:41:57,589
been sanctioned for the same offenses

919
00:42:02,160 --> 00:41:59,929
which are breaches of several sections

920
00:42:05,240 --> 00:42:02,170
of the cba's code of conduct for

921
00:42:09,650 --> 00:42:06,830
once again back to the sydney morning

922
00:42:12,970 --> 00:42:09,660
herald article quote a woman who gave

923
00:42:15,950 --> 00:42:12,980
birth in John Hunter Hospital in 2008

924
00:42:18,380 --> 00:42:15,960
recounted a female chiropractor sneaking

925
00:42:20,750 --> 00:42:18,390
into the maternity ward to adjust the

926
00:42:24,020 --> 00:42:20,760
newborn of a mother who lay in the bed

927
00:42:26,240 --> 00:42:24,030
next to her her bub would have been

928
00:42:28,130 --> 00:42:26,250
about 12 hours old and she and her

929
00:42:30,950 --> 00:42:28,140
husband had a visitor that they were

930
00:42:33,650 --> 00:42:30,960
trying to talk all hush-hush to said the

931
00:42:36,380 --> 00:42:33,660
woman who asked not to be named the

932
00:42:39,140 --> 00:42:36,390
chiro adjusted the baby which the baby

933
00:42:41,660 --> 00:42:39,150
did not seem to enjoy and she told the

934
00:42:44,540 --> 00:42:41,670
mum that vaginal birth was incredibly

935
00:42:46,850 --> 00:42:44,550
traumatic for the baby and that every

936
00:42:49,220 --> 00:42:46,860
newborn should be adjusted within 24

937
00:42:52,550 --> 00:42:49,230
hours of birth to make sure they are

938
00:42:54,860 --> 00:42:52,560
aligned she said the mother said the

939
00:42:57,500 --> 00:42:54,870
chiro had to sneak in like some sort of

940
00:43:00,170 --> 00:42:57,510
criminal and pretend to be a visitor

941
00:43:04,010 --> 00:43:00,180
because the hospital won't let her do

942
00:43:07,580 --> 00:43:04,020
her work general manager of John Hunter

943
00:43:09,890 --> 00:43:07,590
Hospital Debbie Bradley said this is not

944
00:43:12,830 --> 00:43:09,900
a practice that John Hunter is aware of

945
00:43:16,430 --> 00:43:12,840
and it is not endorsed within our

946
00:43:19,460 --> 00:43:16,440
facility the president of chiropractic

947
00:43:22,220 --> 00:43:19,470
of Australia associate professor Rodney

948
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:22,230
Bonello said many chiropractors were

949
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:24,810
horrified and embarrassed by the cases

950
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:27,930
if there's not Hospital approval then

951
00:43:32,330 --> 00:43:29,850
that's a travesty and should never be

952
00:43:34,670 --> 00:43:32,340
acceptable associate professor banila

953
00:43:37,900 --> 00:43:34,680
set the profession has come under a lot

954
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:37,910
of scrutiny some of it is deserved

955
00:43:43,070 --> 00:43:39,810
Chiropractic Association of Australia

956
00:43:44,930 --> 00:43:43,080
chief executive Matthew Fisher said any

957
00:43:47,330 --> 00:43:44,940
practitioner who provided care to a

958
00:43:50,150 --> 00:43:47,340
patient in a healthcare facility without

959
00:43:53,030 --> 00:43:50,160
permission was in breach of the code of

960
00:43:55,310 --> 00:43:53,040
conduct for chiropractors a facebook

961
00:43:58,010 --> 00:43:55,320
page supporting australian chiropractors

962
00:44:00,220 --> 00:43:58,020
who treat babies has been inundated with

963
00:44:02,810 --> 00:44:00,230
photographs featuring overseas-based

964
00:44:06,020 --> 00:44:02,820
chiropractors treating infants and young

965
00:44:07,970 --> 00:44:06,030
children the Australian media seems to

966
00:44:11,270 --> 00:44:07,980
be tied tight to the medical community

967
00:44:14,660 --> 00:44:11,280
and the pharmaceutical industry said

968
00:44:18,650 --> 00:44:14,670
europe-based chiropractor Lynn Mack

969
00:44:21,530 --> 00:44:18,660
avenia in a video post end quote

970
00:44:24,350 --> 00:44:21,540
also extremely concerning is the

971
00:44:28,340 --> 00:44:24,360
anti-vaccination stance many of these

972
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:28,350
chiropractors openly hold for example in

973
00:44:31,790 --> 00:44:29,970
rosboroughs clinics spruit to the

974
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:31,800
anti-vaccination book Melanie's

975
00:44:37,310 --> 00:44:34,650
marvelous measles on their Facebook page

976
00:44:40,250 --> 00:44:37,320
there are too many more examples to give

977
00:44:42,290 --> 00:44:40,260
here but for a thorough examination of

978
00:44:45,110 --> 00:44:42,300
the extent of this chiropractic

979
00:44:47,290 --> 00:44:45,120
anti-vaccination problem Google

980
00:44:50,990 --> 00:44:47,300
reasonable Hanks blog with the words

981
00:44:53,630 --> 00:44:51,000
vaccination and chiropractors and you

982
00:44:56,510 --> 00:44:53,640
will find yourself some very disturbing

983
00:44:59,000 --> 00:44:56,520
reading what needs to be answered is

984
00:45:01,880 --> 00:44:59,010
where the chiropractors are getting

985
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:01,890
their anti-vaccination stance from is it

986
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:03,810
from lecturers at the universities they

987
00:45:08,660 --> 00:45:06,930
attended or is it later on once they've

988
00:45:11,300 --> 00:45:08,670
graduated perhaps in ongoing

989
00:45:13,340 --> 00:45:11,310
professional development units we need

990
00:45:15,650 --> 00:45:13,350
to know this in order to stop the

991
00:45:17,720 --> 00:45:15,660
problem at its source rather than

992
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:17,730
attempting to limit the damage once it

993
00:45:21,770 --> 00:45:20,130
has already occurred and the same can be

994
00:45:24,310 --> 00:45:21,780
said for the treatment of children by

995
00:45:27,650 --> 00:45:24,320
chiropractors for things like autism

996
00:45:30,590 --> 00:45:27,660
bedwetting ear infections and colic

997
00:45:34,250 --> 00:45:30,600
there is just no evidence base for it

998
00:45:36,650 --> 00:45:34,260
and what of the dubious surrogate muscle

999
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:36,660
testing that some chiropractors are

1000
00:45:41,750 --> 00:45:39,330
offering whereby the baby is held by a

1001
00:45:44,750 --> 00:45:41,760
parent and the chiropractor performs

1002
00:45:48,500 --> 00:45:44,760
applied kinesiology to the parent to

1003
00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:48,510
find subluxations in the baby how is

1004
00:45:53,890 --> 00:45:51,330
this happening so back to what the CBA

1005
00:45:58,340 --> 00:45:53,900
is or isn't doing about the problem

1006
00:46:02,960 --> 00:45:58,350
again from reasonable Hank in its March

1007
00:46:04,790 --> 00:46:02,970
7 2016 statement the CBA stated the

1008
00:46:09,290 --> 00:46:04,800
following regarding misleading claims

1009
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:09,300
still being made by chiropractors quote

1010
00:46:14,570 --> 00:46:11,970
of particular concern is the number of

1011
00:46:16,580 --> 00:46:14,580
treatment claims in advertising relating

1012
00:46:18,500 --> 00:46:16,590
to infants and children claimed

1013
00:46:20,570 --> 00:46:18,510
suggesting that manual therapy for

1014
00:46:22,850 --> 00:46:20,580
spinal problems can assist with general

1015
00:46:24,770 --> 00:46:22,860
wellness and or benefit a variety of

1016
00:46:26,780 --> 00:46:24,780
pediatric syndromes and organic

1017
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:26,790
conditions are not supported by

1018
00:46:31,490 --> 00:46:29,490
satisfactory evidence this includes

1019
00:46:32,059 --> 00:46:31,500
claims relating to developmental and

1020
00:46:35,150 --> 00:46:32,069
behavioral

1021
00:46:38,380 --> 00:46:35,160
disorders ADHD autistic spectrum

1022
00:46:42,049 --> 00:46:38,390
disorders asthma infantile colic

1023
00:46:45,859 --> 00:46:42,059
bedwetting ear infections and digestive

1024
00:46:48,949 --> 00:46:45,869
problems and in the case of the care of

1025
00:46:51,289 --> 00:46:48,959
pregnant patients chiropractors are not

1026
00:46:54,380 --> 00:46:51,299
trained to apply any direct treatment to

1027
00:46:56,799 --> 00:46:54,390
an unborn child and should not deliver

1028
00:46:59,049 --> 00:46:56,809
any treatment to the unborn child

1029
00:47:02,269 --> 00:46:59,059
chiropractic care must not be

1030
00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:02,279
represented or provided as treatment to

1031
00:47:10,699 --> 00:47:05,130
the unborn child as an obstetric breach

1032
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:10,709
correction technique end quote so we

1033
00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:13,410
have a large number of chiropractors who

1034
00:47:18,049 --> 00:47:16,170
are a advertising non evidence-based

1035
00:47:21,349 --> 00:47:18,059
treatments in breach of their own

1036
00:47:23,539 --> 00:47:21,359
guidelines be allowing patient

1037
00:47:25,549 --> 00:47:23,549
testimonials on their social media sites

1038
00:47:29,420 --> 00:47:25,559
also a breach of their advertising

1039
00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:29,430
guidelines see entering hospitals under

1040
00:47:35,660 --> 00:47:32,130
false pretenses posing as family members

1041
00:47:38,420 --> 00:47:35,670
or friends d entering hospitals without

1042
00:47:41,630 --> 00:47:38,430
the necessary accreditations permissions

1043
00:47:45,799 --> 00:47:41,640
and probably relevant insurances to

1044
00:47:47,839 --> 00:47:45,809
treat babies e demonstrating a complete

1045
00:47:50,029 --> 00:47:47,849
disregard and lack of respect for the

1046
00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:50,039
concept of open communication and

1047
00:47:56,359 --> 00:47:52,130
collaboration between multidisciplinary

1048
00:47:58,789 --> 00:47:56,369
healthcare providers and F spruiking

1049
00:48:00,949 --> 00:47:58,799
anti-vaccination nonsense and other

1050
00:48:04,999 --> 00:48:00,959
conspiracy theories on their social

1051
00:48:07,430 --> 00:48:05,009
media business pages in short this

1052
00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:07,440
subset of chiropractors appear to be

1053
00:48:13,789 --> 00:48:10,650
well and truly out of control and are

1054
00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:13,799
brazenly continuing to give the bird to

1055
00:48:20,420 --> 00:48:17,729
their regulatory bodies we wait in

1056
00:48:24,709 --> 00:48:20,430
anticipation of how those regulatory

1057
00:48:26,870 --> 00:48:24,719
bodies will respond thanks everyone this

1058
00:48:29,029 --> 00:48:26,880
has been highly robertson from the

1059
00:48:32,599 --> 00:48:29,039
Northern Rivers vaccination supporters

1060
00:48:35,990 --> 00:48:32,609
you can find us on facebook on twitter

1061
00:48:39,770 --> 00:48:36,000
at in our vax supporters

1062
00:48:50,390 --> 00:48:39,780
and on our website nrvs info as well as

1063
00:48:54,830 --> 00:48:50,400
Wikipedia till next time on Maynard com

1064
00:48:59,690 --> 00:48:54,840
dono you hey you it's time to get on the

1065
00:49:02,870 --> 00:48:59,700
stump kids oh god haha pain tick all the

1066
00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:02,880
boxes below the line because and bunga

1067
00:49:12,930 --> 00:49:10,340
election special

1068
00:49:15,090 --> 00:49:12,940
97 people say who's going to win I say

1069
00:49:21,150 --> 00:49:15,100
politics is the winner we are right

1070
00:49:23,100 --> 00:49:21,160
behind the pirate party stick a screen

1071
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:23,110
down that end and put I don't know a

1072
00:49:32,130 --> 00:49:25,330
very moving episode of Diff'rent Strokes

1073
00:49:35,100 --> 00:49:32,140
maybe consider bunga bunga 27 as a

1074
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:35,110
podcast audio version of going off on

1075
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:36,850
that fishing boat in the scene from one

1076
00:49:39,540 --> 00:49:38,170
throw the Cuckoo's Nest it's me and Jim

1077
00:49:41,460 --> 00:49:39,550
on a boat not knowing what we're doing

1078
00:49:43,500 --> 00:49:41,470
having no idea what we're doing we're

1079
00:49:45,930 --> 00:49:43,510
having a great time and you can both

1080
00:49:48,810 --> 00:49:45,940
call us doctors hello mean are you

1081
00:49:51,510 --> 00:49:48,820
listen to bunga bunga 27 bunga bunga the

1082
00:49:53,610 --> 00:49:51,520
nation's most collectible podcast that's

1083
00:49:55,680 --> 00:49:53,620
right collect them all we'd all like to

1084
00:49:58,020 --> 00:49:55,690
be Pikachu there's the new one bunga chu

1085
00:49:59,790 --> 00:49:58,030
let's open the crank mail crank mail

1086
00:50:01,320 --> 00:49:59,800
Cray my oh we're just gonna have to wait

1087
00:50:02,610 --> 00:50:01,330
for Hillary Clinton to drive off in her

1088
00:50:04,530 --> 00:50:02,620
tractor if she's making a bit of noise

1089
00:50:06,450 --> 00:50:04,540
they're ripping it move along Clinton

1090
00:50:07,830 --> 00:50:06,460
she's finally gotten the word there

1091
00:50:09,780 --> 00:50:07,840
she's just gone into the bottle shop got

1092
00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:09,790
a rose over a bottle of sambuca which

1093
00:50:16,010 --> 00:50:11,890
she's drinking from openly as she drives

1094
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:20,090
hey Mills still loves you on Maynard com

1095
00:50:31,610 --> 00:50:36,099
bye

1096
00:50:41,359 --> 00:50:38,390
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1097
00:50:44,390 --> 00:50:41,369
zone and if you really thought these

1098
00:50:46,999 --> 00:50:44,400
reports this week will worthwhile then I

1099
00:50:49,249 --> 00:50:47,009
suggest and I ask you to tell your

1100
00:50:50,900 --> 00:50:49,259
friends spread the word I think this is

1101
00:50:53,630 --> 00:50:50,910
a particularly good episode with three

1102
00:50:55,970 --> 00:50:53,640
very interesting reports thanks to our

1103
00:50:58,880 --> 00:50:55,980
wonderful reporters this week Heidi and

1104
00:51:01,249 --> 00:50:58,890
dr. Rachel who really who really show

1105
00:51:02,839 --> 00:51:01,259
their the cream of the crop I think all

1106
00:51:04,430 --> 00:51:02,849
my reports I think of the cream of the

1107
00:51:06,170 --> 00:51:04,440
crop they're all wonderful coming up on

1108
00:51:08,839 --> 00:51:06,180
the show next week we can have a report

1109
00:51:11,269 --> 00:51:08,849
about Belle Gibson now this was a woman

1110
00:51:14,749 --> 00:51:11,279
who claimed that she was using natural

1111
00:51:17,660 --> 00:51:14,759
therapies and nice unicorn thoughts to

1112
00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:17,670
cure her brain cancer here in Australia

1113
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:20,490
will also be reporting on the perak on

1114
00:51:25,519 --> 00:51:23,490
this is the paranormal convention that

1115
00:51:28,339 --> 00:51:25,529
i'll be attending pretty soon in about

1116
00:51:31,220 --> 00:51:28,349
six days I wonder what I wonder what

1117
00:51:32,779 --> 00:51:31,230
maenad will get up to there hmm well I

1118
00:51:35,319 --> 00:51:32,789
can't see into the future but I can

1119
00:51:38,900 --> 00:51:35,329
guess now now I'm starting to be worried

1120
00:51:41,359 --> 00:51:38,910
hmm but for this week this is Richard

1121
00:51:47,630 --> 00:51:41,369
Saunders signing off from Sydney

1122
00:51:50,150 --> 00:51:47,640
Australia you've been listening to the

1123
00:51:53,990 --> 00:51:50,160
skeptics own podcast visit our website

1124
00:51:57,259 --> 00:51:54,000
at WCA pegs on TV for contacts and

1125
00:52:00,440 --> 00:51:57,269
archive of all episodes since 2008 and

1126
00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:00,450
our online store please support the

1127
00:52:05,839 --> 00:52:02,490
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1128
00:52:09,349 --> 00:52:05,849
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1129
00:52:10,849 --> 00:52:09,359
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1130
00:52:14,240 --> 00:52:10,859
also show your support by subscribing

1131
00:52:17,089 --> 00:52:14,250
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1132
00:52:19,160 --> 00:52:17,099
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1133
00:52:21,230 --> 00:52:19,170
independent production the views and

1134
00:52:23,420 --> 00:52:21,240
opinions expressed on the skeptic zone

1135
00:52:26,299 --> 00:52:23,430
and not necessarily those of Australian

1136
00:52:36,260 --> 00:52:26,309
skeptical or any other skeptical

1137
00:52:45,180 --> 00:52:41,610
one two three hello and welcome to the

1138
00:52:51,180 --> 00:52:45,190
skeptic Zone episode number 396 for the

1139
00:52:53,910 --> 00:52:51,190
22nd that was a cat it was jumping up on

1140
00:53:11,340 --> 00:52:53,920
to my microphone stand knocking

1141
00:53:19,740 --> 00:53:11,350
everything if we think oh god yup here's

1142
00:53:30,210 --> 00:53:19,750
another one what's this thang Thank You

1143
00:53:33,210 --> 00:53:30,220
Maude thank you honey the Australian sex

1144
00:53:39,540 --> 00:53:33,220
party supports this public the

1145
00:53:41,250 --> 00:53:39,550
Australian you've got me in the middle

1146
00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:41,260
of it he caught me in the middle of a

1147
00:53:50,190 --> 00:53:46,810
voiceover hello no no I'm just doing a